March 16, 2022 / Podcast Episode

Episode 29: Moshe Vardi Interview

In this episode: Interview with Moshe Vardi (Gödel Prize 2000, Knuth Prize 2021) [Wikipedia], Prof at Rice University. Outspoken proponent of change in the way the Computing Community ought to see itself. 
Immigrant from Israel in 1981.
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Episode Guide

In this Episode 29: Interview with Moshe Vardi, Professor of Computer Science at Rice University. [Wikipedia] [LinkedIn]. Winner of Gödel Prize (2000), and Knuth Prize (2021). ACM Fellow, IEEE Fellow, AAAS Fellow, AAAI Fellow, AMS Fellow, EATCS Fellow, Guggenheim Fellow. Member of NAE, NAS, and EAS. Immigrant from Israel in 1981. Topics include: Moshe’s Kibbutz childhood and college years in Israel, Fighting in two of Israel’s wars (1970s, 1980s), Computing Revolution in the 1960s and 70s, Comparing Industry vs. Academia, and A Clarion Call to the Computing Community to change the way we view ourselves (and view industry). And much more!

  • mm.ss: Segment Info (Index)
  • 0.00: Voices in this Episode
  • 3.00: Biography
  • 5.43: Act 1 – Idyllic childhood in a Kibbutz in Carmel Hills, Israel. 1950s and 1960s 
    • 7.37: At age 12, he designed a board game of PLO vs. IDF
    • 8.52: Schooling was outside the kibbutz
    • 9.29: Living in the kibbutz: Ownership and employment in the kibbutz was not individual but rather communal
    • 12.10: Parents’ work life. His parents were neither scientists nor engineers. 
    • 13.07: When father wanted to go college, after 15 years in kibbutz, the kibbutz objected. How did his father navigate this?
    • 15.00: At age 13, moving out of the kibbutz. The start of his “root-lessness”.
    • 16.07: First interest in Math and Science. At age 10, he found linear algebra “beautiful, not just interesting.” The 12 volumes of book “Young Engineer”.
    • 18.16: When his parents passed away in the mid-2010s, he found things from his childhood in his parents’ home.
    • 20.22: Nearly a Rabbi! Moshe went to rabbinical school. Because all his ancestors (father, grandpa) were rabbis. 
    • 22. 23: Skipping grades to finish school 2 years early at age 16. Teachers kicking him to the next grade because…
      • “I was too much trouble in the class.”
  • 24.00: Act 2 – Fighting in multiple wars in the Israeli Army, 1970s and 1980s
  • 29.57: Act 3 – Computing in the 1970s, and Entering University (Bar-Ilan University) to study Physics (major) and a minor in Computer Science. 1970s
    • 29.57: What was the admission process to University?
    • 31.08: First interest in Computing: At age 16 (just finishing high school), attending a 2 week computer programming course in Fortran.
    • 33.02: Learning and mastering Algol-W without ever using a computer
    • 33.50: Mainframe was upgraded to 1 MB memory
      • “The (University) President came to drink champagne… mainframe was updated to 1 MB.”
    • 34.40: First computer 
    • 35.03: Getting used to punched cards and keypunch machines, and finding suddenly they’re out of fashion
      • “Nobody uses punched cards any more! …The world had changed.”
    • 37.33:: 1970s was huge in computing – NP completeness, microprocessors invented.
  • 38.39: Act 4 – Starting Research, late 1970s
    • 38.39: First taste of research 
    • 40.50: MS in 1980 and PhD in 1981: Completing the PhD in just 1 year!
      • “I was in a hurry, I finished (my PhD) in 1 year.”
    • 42.25: Applying for a US PhD, after his MS in 1980, but without guidance. GRE: Verbal scores vs. quantitative scores.
      • “Today you see very few Israelis coming to US for PhD… Turing award winners in Israel. … But it used to be … study abroad.”
    • 45.46: Language of schooling and college. Learning English aside from Hebrew (and learning Roman alphabet).
    • 47.05: Do you think research ideas in Hebrew or English?
  • 48.52: Act 5 –  Moving to US for a Postdoc, 1981
    • 48.52: Adapting to the US. Clash of cultures.
      • “Cultural gap… Israelis tend to be very direct!…Sweet on the inside, thorny on the outside.”
    • 51.09: Developing diplomatic skills.
    • 52.16: Why not return to Israel after postdoc (1983)? 
      • “One of the most difficult decisions at that time was to stay in the US.”
    • 53.16: Considering Industry vs. Academic jobs. After postdoc.
  • 54.00: Act 6 – The extinct workplace: The industrial research lab. IBM Research, 1984-93. And moving to Rice University, 1993
    • 54.00: The “good old times” of industrial research. 
    • 56.53: Why leave IBM Research after nearly a decade?
    • 58.17: Moving from North California to Texas (Rice University), 1993.
  • 1.00.09: Act 7 – Is the Tech Industry now, like the Tobacco Industry, the “Evil Empire”?
    • “Think: Whom are you working for?”
    • “You have to be morally obtuse to work for a company…”
    • “We think of ourselves (Computing field) still as the rebels… now we are the empire. We are running the Black Star (Death Star), we are not the rebels anymore.”
    • “In academia, I am not working for the President. I told the President — You are working for me!”
    • “When you are a manager in industry, you are considered “overhead”.”
    • “When you work for the company, ask yourself – what business are they in.”
  • 1.13.57: Act 8 – Retrospective and Perspective
    • 1.13.57: Dealing with Failures and Rejections
    • 1.16.11: Hypothetical question: Had he grown up in the US completely, would his life and career have been different?
      • “Both of my parents are holocaust survivors… they met in a Displaced Persons camp.”
      • “My mother’s brother lost his wife and daughter in the holocaust.”
      • “There is a phrase… tough times make a strong people, strong people create successful times, successful time creates weak people, weak people create hard times…. It’s a cycle.”
    • 1.20.50: Parents survived the Hungarian Holocaust
      • “Mother lost all her family in the Hungarian Holocaust.”
      • “Both of my parents survived the Hungarian Holocaust.”
  • 1.22.17: Act 9 – Ideas on Improving Diversity in Computer Science
    • 1.25.18: Perspectives attending the Grace Hopper Conference’s banquet
    • 1.27.03: Attending first class, after having oral surgery that resulted in a swollen cheek
    • 1.28.24: The North-South dichotomy hypothesis: In Europe, southern countries have higher women participating in tech.
  • 1.32.48: Act 10 – Moshe’s clarion call for thinking about the impact of computing on society 
    • “We used to be the rebels… now are are the empire.”
    • Spoiler alert: This portion contains a spoiler for the book/movie/series “Ender’s Game”.
    • 1.35.42: What is the right forum to have these conversations?
  • 1.37.58: Ending and Thank You
Featured in this Episode
  • Moshe Vardi, Professor of Computer Science at Rice University. [Wikipedia] [LinkedIn]
    • Research Areas: Applications of Logic in computer science, including database theory, finite-model theory, knowledge in multi-agent systems, computer-aided verification and reasoning
    • Awards
      • Gödel Prize in 2000, lifetime achievement in theoretical computer science
      • Knuth Prize in 2021 for seminal contributions to computer science foundations
      • ACM Fellow, IEEE  Fellow, Fellow of American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), Fellow of American Association for Artificial Intelligence (AAAI), Fellow of American Mathematical Society, Fellow of European Association for Theoretical Computer Science, Fellow of American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and a Guggenheim Fellow
      • Member of National Academy of Sciences, Member of National Academy of Engineering,  Member of Academia Europaea, and a Member of the European Academy of Sciences
      • Leadership and service: ACM Presidential Award, Harry H Goode Memorial Award from IEEE, IEEE Norbert Wiener Award for Social and Professional Responsibility
      • Currently Senior Editor of Communications of the ACM, after serving as its Editor-in-Chief for a decade.
Useful Links
Upcoming Episodes

This is the third episode in the show’s 4-episode segment on Israel.

Look for our next episode, featuring the full interview with Regina Barzilay (Episode 30). 

Recently on Season 2
  • Israel Segment
    • Interview with Tal Rabin, Prof UPenn and Head of Research, Algorand Foundation. [Episode 28]
    • From Israel: Episode featuring 3 distinguished Computer Scientists (Tal Rabin, Moshe Vardi, Regina Barzilay). [Episode 27]
  • India Segment: 3 Episodes
    • Interview with Pratima Rao Gluckman, author of book “Nevertheless, She Persisted: True Stories of Women Leaders in Tech”, and immigrant from India, and leader in Silicon Valley. [Episode 26]
    • IIT Madras, Computer Science Batch of 1998: Interview with 7 graduates from that batch (comprising about 25% of the batch). 4 PhDs + 3 Masters. 3 entrepreneurs, 3 industry long-timers, and 1 Professor (host). [Episode 24, Episode 25]
In case you missed it | Season 1

Season 1 featured 22 episodes where we visited 5 continents, and 7 countries. Check them out!

  • Credits
    • Music Credits for Podcast
    • The caption picture at top of page is taken from the air outside Chicago, USA. Pic taken by Indranil Gupta. 
 The Immigrant Computer Scientists Podcast is available for free on your favorite devices & apps: Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and many more!
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Professor of Computer Science, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign